The state Superior Court upheld a Lackawanna County judge’s ruling that extends the time a convicted sex offender must report his whereabouts under Megan’s Law from 10 years to life. ..
The court acknowledged the reporting requirements are a burden for Mr. ____, but it likened them to requirements of a person who is on probation and must meet with a probation officer. It therefore found the requirement was not punitive. Full Article
I’m confused. The court in this instance said the registration restrictions were no more punitive than being on probation, therefore they weren’t punishment. But isn’t probation punishment? How can something being no more restrictive than an actual punishment not be an actual punishment?
While being a bad judgement, it is interesting that the court likened registration requirements to being similar to probation. How is that not a punishment, and not punitive?
As Janice mentioned, this whole Megan’s Law will need to be challenged at the Supreme Court.
OMFG!!!!!
“Probation for criminals is the condition of being allowed freedom if they commit no more crimes and follow certain rules.”
I can understand the mindset of the judges to liken the registry to probation.
Sex offenders have been found guilty of a crime and sentenced accordingly.
Some are incarcerated, some ordered to therapy and most are sentenced to a registry which has evolved into probation and progressive monitoring for 10 years to life.
Forcing them to abide by the ever changing terms of their probation/registry requirements are thought to be effective controls over their innate behavior characteristics.
Unfortunately, these judges seem to pass aside the logical rights of an individual to a fair hearing to explain why their extended probation/registration or controls is justified by law.
I imagine anyone on any type of probation looks forward to being free of scrutiny and the intimidation that goes with it.
Another satisfied Price Club member! [sarcasm]
Makes. Me. Sick.
Appeal & lawsuit their (mule) financially. They are blatantly Wrong and they need to be the north korea example that treats people without dignity and fairness. In gross violation to our Constitution & human rights. Appeal this case. This needs to be in front of the ussupreme court. This is in your face you wannabe north korea..WRONG.
Going to prison is punishment. Probation can be given in lieu of a prison term. If the probationer violates a condition during the probation period, then either more restrictions are applied or serve a prison term – both are still forms of punishment. Once probation is successfully completed, then convict has “proven” their selves under probationary terms. Essentially, he or she as completed their prison sentence, so to speak.
Registration is a felony if a registrant does not comply. A felony that can land one in prison – which is punishment. That is exactly like probation. Lifetime registration is lifetime probation. So registration is a form of punishment as it has consequences of conditions are not followed. A person is punished for not following the conditions of registration.
A lifetime of punishment is simply cruel and inhumane.
No other convicts share this type of punishment, which violates equal protection.
Now that this court has intimated in court that registration is like probation. That is now legally in court. Which means it can now be used in future cases to identify the court has related registration with probation.
Guess they had to come up with their own lame analogy since Price Club was already taken
Here is the ruling:
http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinions/Superior/out/J-S05010-16o%20-%201025561266192467.pdf?cb=1
“Indeed, as a practical matter, perfect precision is unrealistic. It may be the case that an individual sex offender, who appears most likely to reoffend, might never commit another offense even in the absence of any Megan’s Law regime. Similarly, an individual registrant, who appears least likely to reoffend, might reoffend despite the most onerous Megan’s Law sanctions. Simply put, it is impossible to predict future behavior with perfect accuracy; thus, no regime designed to prevent future behavior can be held to such exacting standards of rationality. It is enough that the statute will sometimes fulfill its non-punitive purpose to demonstrate the rationality of the measures imposed. As the Smith Court stated, “A statute is not deemed punitive simply because it lacks a close or perfect fit with the nonpunitive aims it seeks to advance.” Smith, 538 U.S. at 103.”
Can you guys see this line from the judge being used to justify IML?
When the judgment of the Supreme Court states that punishment = non-punishment, this bodes evil for the future of jurisprudence for every citizen
Probation is definitely a form of punishment and it is stated on many law websites. Registration is also a form of punishment, especially since it takes away some of the freedom that others enjoy, long after a sentence has been completed. I agree with New Person that registration violates the equal rights protection. If registration is meant for protecting the public, then other offenders would also have to register to protect the public. They can’t pick and choose which offenses harmed the public. Drunk Driving, selling drugs, robberies, burglaries, assault, etc also harm the public. Either all of these ex-offenders need to be treated the same, or none. That is equal rights protection….
In one way I agree with the judge. I had significantly more freedom and civil liberties when I was on probation than I do under the current array of post-punishment punishments.
Americans can call their silly little rules and terms whatever they want, but for me:
Registration = Punishment
Home Verification Raids = Harassment
Residency Restrictions = Banishment
Exclusion Zones = Exile
Sex Offender = Former Citizen Detainees
These are the terms, or ones similar to them, that need to be used and made commonplace. When an American mommy hears “Child Safety Zone” she feels warm and fuzzy and “knows” that no one but her will molest her kids.
But when they hear the term banishment, exile and hear that sex offenders are no longer considered American citizens, but yet they are trapped inside the borders(following the IML) they will lose that warm fuzzy feeling and then maybe some broad national changes will occur, because then the reality of terms must be dealt with.
We are here America. You will not let us leave. We are angry with you. We have the courts and we are honoring our former citizen status to use the courts to try to improve our lives. But since 1994 there has been one step forward, ten steps back. Eventually most of us will lose faith in the courts, the system and our fellow man.
If you want to see what happens when a group of people feels outcast, unheard, hated and shunned, look no further than the Shia in Iraq. While Saddam squashed their revolts, it was the feeling of exclusion from government, society and a disproportionate alottment of civil liberties and unequal punitive measures for crime that created the feeling that there was little left to lose. While Former Citizen Detainees lack the religious fervor and bonding that was the fuse lighting the fire, most of us alive and adults in 1980 have witnessed and can feel the sectarianism and if we look at past legislation as a line graph, the blank end of that line graph looks pretty hopeless.
We are not there yet, but I think now that we are legislative prisoners in a nation that does not want us, we’re pretty close.
In Florida, A appeals court judge in a case stated that probation is a form of punishment and is cited even referring to the Florida criminal – probation section. (I can’t remember it now because this was a few years ago when I was gathering and compiling many defenses to get out of probation early, which I was triumphant. Thank goodness. Even though probation is indeed an alternative to incarceration, it is a form of punishment(Those were the judges words ). Court judges have to be careful in the wordings they use in a case because it can backfire on them in another court and can be an opportunity for a defendant, which I take advantage when my attorney and I look for weaknesses to my advantage. This judge in this case mentions the word ” burden “…that the requirement is burdensome for the defendant. If you look up ” burden ” it is synonymous with punishment.(3rd column)
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/burden
Renny wrote “…Sex Offender = Former Citizen Detainees”
I feel uncomfortable using that term since it implies concentration camps are coming soon. But with the latest proposal working it’s way through, IML, the term takes on new accuracy, and that bothers me. I think I saw it on Walsh’s America’s Most Wanted that the first thing to do when taken hostage is to access your escape routes. As a ( i would assume ) former offender, Walsh acts like he knows his stuff. And it makes sense when someone closes off your escape route, they are doing it for a sinister reason. I used to watch Walsh’s America’s Most Wanted which did these scene recreations of the crimes where the perps were on the run. It always showed the worst of the worst and Walsh would chime in calling them scumbags, dirtbags, etc. So it looked like Walsh was only concerned with the worst of the worst. Not so, as Walshs hypocritical laws targeted even the lowest level registrant with nasty repurcussions if Walsh’s and Foley’s arbitrary restrictions or in-person appearances or reportings or whatever are not followed.
“If you want to see what happens when a group of people feels outcast, unheard, hated and shunned, look no further than the Shia in Iraq. While Saddam squashed their revolts, it was the feeling of exclusion from government, society and a disproportionate alottment of civil liberties and unequal punitive measures for crime that created the feeling that there was little left to lose.”
Throughout history, they have had a lot to lose, however. Shia were always the majority in Iraq. Even back when Iraq was Mesopotamia, Shia’s were in charge. There was a Shia caliphate. Of course, during the Ottomon Empire, Sunni’s were in charge. Shia’s got burned by Bush Sr. leaving them in the dust after the Gulf War as he had promised to back the Shia’s after the war. They felt let down obviously. But they did have their non-arab Iranian Shia’s next door to offer some support. The Iranian Shia’s took in some of their religious Iraqi Arab Shia brothers. So it’s not like they had no friends at all or throughout history. I would liken registrants in the US moreso to the Yezidi people who, in the Middle East, do not have much help, do not have the numbers like the Shia do, and just want to be left alone. If the Shia were relatively few and powerless, then ISIS would not have gotten started since forming ISIS was a Iraqi Sunni response to Iraqi Shia dominance.
“While Former Citizen Detainees lack the religious fervor and bonding that was the fuse lighting the fire, most of us alive and adults in 1980 have witnessed and can feel the sectarianism and if we look at past legislation as a line graph, the blank end of that line graph looks pretty hopeless.”
There was a lot of sectarianism in Lebanon during that time. Hell broke loose in Lebanon in the late 70’s. But in 1980, there also was a lot of dictators keeping the secatarianism under wraps. The US foolishly got rid of these guys and FaceBook played a role enabling the Arab Spring where FaceBook got to expand its business by providing a platform to take down the dictators, which led to the formation of ISIS. FaceBook will not let ex-sex offenders speak on their forums, but they let ISIS form on their forums. That sounds idiotic. Hafez Assad, Saddam, Kadaffi, and Boumediene of Algeria to name a few that got taken down. Egypt is different with not much divide among Muslims since Egypt is all Sunni Muslim and Christians, no Shia there. Through greed, war profiteers justified war to enrich themselves at the expense of peace in the world. Attack and rid the world of these dictators at the expense of the people who have to deal with ISIS now. Same thing with these bogus sex offender laws. These laws get created and snowball down the slippery slope of lost civil rights, lost humanity, and creating false senses of security so non-registrant sex crimes like that of John Walsh and Mark Foley can flourish without intervention.
“We are not there yet, but I think now that we are legislative prisoners in a nation that does not want us, we’re pretty close.
And now with Trump talking about building a wall on the Arizona-Mexico and the Texas-Mexico border,( California-Mexico already has a wall built with a few crossings like Otay-Mesa) escaping concentration camp type persecutions seems to be vastly more difficult if it ever came to that, and in Walshs line of thinking, it will come to that.
Renny wrote “…Sex Offender = Former Citizen Detainees”
I feel uncomfortable using that term since it implies concentration camps are coming soon. But with the latest proposal working it’s way through, IML, the term takes on new accuracy, and that bothers me. I think I saw it on Walsh’s America’s Most Wanted that the first thing to do when taken hostage is to assess your escape routes. As a ( i would assume ) former offender, Walsh acts like he knows his stuff. And it makes sense when someone closes off your escape route, they are doing it for a sinister reason. I used to watch Walsh’s America’s Most Wanted which did these scene recreations of the crimes where the perps were on the run. It always showed the worst of the worst and Walsh would chime in calling them scumbags, dirtbags, etc. So it looked like Walsh was only concerned with the worst of the worst. Not so, as Walshs hypocritical laws targeted even the lowest level registrant with nasty repurcussions if Walsh’s and Foley’s arbitrary restrictions are not followed.
“If you want to see what happens when a group of people feels outcast, unheard, hated and shunned, look no further than the Shia in Iraq. While Saddam squashed their revolts, it was the feeling of exclusion from government, society and a disproportionate alottment of civil liberties and unequal punitive measures for crime that created the feeling that there was little left to lose.”
Throughout history, they have had a lot to lose, however. Shia were always the majority in Iraq. Even back when Iraq was Mesopotamia, Shia’s were in charge. There was a Shia caliphate. Of course, during the Ottomon Empire, Sunni’s were in charge. Shia’s got burned by Bush Sr. leaving them in the dust after the Gulf War as he had promised to back the Shia’s after the war. They felt let down obviously. But they did have their non-arab Iranian Shia’s next door to offer some support. The Iranian Shia’s took in some of their religious Iraqi Arab Shia brothers. So it’s not like they had no friends at all or throughout history. And is Bush Sr, toppled Saddam , ISIS would have formed that much sooner. It was his dipshit son W. who ousted Saddam and in 2003 whose people supported Smith v Doe. I would liken registrants in the US moreso to the Yezidi people who, in the Middle East, do not have much help, do not have the numbers like the Shia do, and just want to be left alone. If the Shia were relatively few and powerless, then ISIS would not have gotten started since forming ISIS was a Iraqi Sunni response to Iraqi Shia dominance. And of course, not without the help of FaceBook, who gave us the Arab Spring which catalyzed the formation of ISIS and who gave us Chris Kelly and enabled him through enriching him to Donald Trump levels through immoral corporate inversion practices of FaceBook, who like ISIS’ perverted version of Islam, brought us and has attempted to bring perverted laws which contradict the US Constitution’s 1st Amendment. With Kelly claiming false emergencies that really do not exist in regards to registrants, this is in spirit tantamount to yelling ‘Fire’ in a crowded theatre. Chris Smith has also used this tactic of yelling Fire, and by claiming a false emergency and invoking sex trafficking, it is hard to believe Kelly is not involved to fund this as well.
“While Former Citizen Detainees lack the religious fervor and bonding that was the fuse lighting the fire, most of us alive and adults in 1980 have witnessed and can feel the sectarianism and if we look at past legislation as a line graph, the blank end of that line graph looks pretty hopeless.”
There was a lot of sectarianism in Lebanon during that time. Hell broke loose in Lebanon in the late 70’s. But in 1980, there also was a lot of dictators keeping the sectarianism under wraps. The US foolishly got rid of these guys and FaceBook played a role enabling the Arab Spring where FaceBook got to expand its business by providing a platform to take down the dictators, which led to the formation of ISIS. And FaceBook reaped the profits from this while only paying 2% international taxes on this. FaceBook will not let ex-sex offenders speak on their forums, but they let ISIS form on their forums. Idiotic. Hafez Assad, Saddam, Kadaffi, and Boumediene of Algeria to name a few that got taken down. Egypt is different with not much divide among Muslims since Egypt is all Sunni Muslim and Christians, no Shia there. Through greed, war profiteers justified war to enrich themselves at the expense of peace in the world. Attack and rid the world of these dictators at the expense of the people who have to deal with ISIS now. Same thing with these bogus sex offender laws. These laws get created and snowball down the slippery slope of lost civil rights, lost humanity, and creating false senses of security so non-registrant sex crimes like that of John Walsh and Mark Foley can flourish without intervention. Not to mention creating a police state where normal behavior is criminalized, where any group could be next.
“We are not there yet, but I think now that we are legislative prisoners in a nation that does not want us, we’re pretty close.
And now with Trump talking about building a wall on the Arizona-Mexico and the Texas-Mexico border,( California-Mexico already has a wall built with a few crossings like Otay-Mesa) escaping concentration camp type persecutions seems to be becoming vastly more difficult if it ever came to that, and in Walshs line of thinking, it will come to that.
I don’t understand how court after court, can find the extension of a punishment once issued for a period of 10 or 15 years then changed to a life sentence, just. No defendant’s initial cases were reviewed; they were all changed to life sentences. Even for some who had completed their terms. Then names are published on a website, and the whole family is on that list. I have applied for more than a dozen jobs that I am more than qualified for, but I don’t get even a call back after the background check has been done.
If someone has served their time, and they are proven beyond any doubt not a danger to society in any way, why are they still remanded to a lifetime of punishment when it was not even the sentence in the first place? And how can they afford to hire a lawyer to fight for them when they are unemployable due to the registration list? And not eligible for assistance/disability because they are deemed able to work?